chgrp in Windows

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chgrp in Windows

Michael Lemke
I've got what I feel is actually a terribly basic Windows question.  If I set a gid with e.g. chgrp where does Windows store that information on a local NTFS file system?  The result of chown I can see in Windows Explorer as the Owner but where is the group information?  Or put another way: how to do a chgrp with Windows means?  Note I am not asking about any uid/gid SID mapping.

Thanks,
Michael

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Re: chgrp in Windows

Warren Young
> On Feb 24, 2015, at 4:48 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>
> I've got what I feel is actually a terribly basic Windows question.

Terribly basic questions are usually answered in the terribly detailed documentation.  :)

In this particular case, here:

  https://cygwin.com/cygwin-ug-net/ntsec.html

> If I set a gid with e.g. chgrp where does Windows store that information on a local NTFS file system?

The same place it stores the user information.

> The result of chown I can see in Windows Explorer as the Owner but where is the group information?

It’s over on the Security tab of the same window you’re looking at: “Group or user names”.

> how to do a chgrp with Windows means?

Click the Edit button below the “Group or user names” box.


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Re: chgrp in Windows

Warren Young
> On Feb 24, 2015, at 4:57 PM, Warren Young <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> The result of chown I can see in Windows Explorer as the Owner but where is the group information?
>
> It’s over on the Security tab of the same window you’re looking at: “Group or user names”.

I just remembered that that tab isn’t always visible.  If you’re running a “home” version of Windows, there’s a pretty good chance you don’t even see this tab.

If that’s your situation, you can un-hide this tab:

  http://goo.gl/MDoBo1
  http://goo.gl/C2p2N5

That tab can also be hidden because:

- a group policy setting disabled it

- you’re working on a non-NTFS drive

- you’re working on a shared network drive that doesn’t fully support Windows security

etc.
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Re: chgrp in Windows

Michael Lemke
In reply to this post by Michael Lemke
>> On Feb 24, 2015, at 4:57 PM, Warren Young <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> The result of chown I can see in Windows Explorer as the Owner but where is the group information?
>>
>> Itâs over on the Security tab of the same window youâre looking at: âGroup or user namesâ.
>
>I just remembered that that tab isnât always visible.  If youâre running a âhomeâ version of Windows, thereâs a pretty good chance you donât even see this tab.

Thanks for that.  I first thought that's it.  I am on XP Pro so this doesn't seem to apply.  I do see the security tab
if that is what you mean.   But the 'Group or user names' box only selects for which user/group I want to modify
the permissions, doesn't it?  I don't want to modify or look at permissions.

I am actually looking for the information I see in ls -l as the group, i.e. column #4.

I am trying to fix a completely hosed file system and seem to have quite a bit of trouble with that...  Something's still missing.

Thanks again for your quick reply.

Michael




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Re: chgrp in Windows

Andrey Repin
Greetings, [hidden email]!

>>>> The result of chown I can see in Windows Explorer as the Owner but where is the group information?
>>>
>>> Itâs over on the Security tab of the same window youâre looking at: âGroup or user namesâ.
>>
>>I just remembered that that tab isnât always visible.  If youâre running a âhomeâ version of Windows, thereâs a pretty good chance you donât even see this tab.

> Thanks for that.  I first thought that's it.  I am on XP Pro so this
> doesn't seem to apply.  I do see the security tab
> if that is what you mean.   But the 'Group or user names' box only selects
> for which user/group I want to modify
> the permissions, doesn't it?  I don't want to modify or look at permissions.

> I am actually looking for the information I see in ls -l as the group, i.e. column #4.

> I am trying to fix a completely hosed file system and seem to have quite a
> bit of trouble with that...  Something's still missing.

> Thanks again for your quick reply.

If you mean Cygwin system, reinstall would be a faster way.
Shutdown any cygwin-related applications, rename current Cygwin installation
and fire up setup.exe.

P.S.
I would also appreciate, if you teach your mail agent to insert proper
threading headers into list replies.


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WBR,
Andrey Repin ([hidden email]) 25.02.2015, <03:40>

Sorry for my terrible english...
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Re: chgrp in Windows

Warren Young-2
In reply to this post by Michael Lemke
> On Feb 24, 2015, at 5:29 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>
> I am actually looking for the information I see in ls -l as the group, i.e. column #4.

If a file has a group, it will show up here.  If you want a file to have a group and don’t want to use chgrp to effect the change, use the Edit button.
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Re: chgrp in Windows

Michael Lemke
In reply to this post by Andrey Repin
On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 01:50:47 +0100  Andrey Repin wrote:

>
>>>>> The result of chown I can see in Windows Explorer as the Owner but where is the group information?
>>>>
>>>> Itâs over on the Security tab of the same window youâre looking at: âGroup or user namesâ.
>>>
>>>I just remembered that that tab isnât always visible.  If youâre running a âhomeâ version of Windows, thereâs a pretty good chance you donât even see this tab.
>
>> Thanks for that.  I first thought that's it.  I am on XP Pro so this
>> doesn't seem to apply.  I do see the security tab
>> if that is what you mean.   But the 'Group or user names' box only selects
>> for which user/group I want to modify
>> the permissions, doesn't it?  I don't want to modify or look at permissions.
>
>> I am actually looking for the information I see in ls -l as the group, i.e. column #4.
>
>> I am trying to fix a completely hosed file system and seem to have quite a
>> bit of trouble with that...  Something's still missing.
>
>If you mean Cygwin system, reinstall would be a faster way.

Unfortunately, it's the whole PC, which is also the reason why I have to use this terrible webmailer, sorry.

And I don't see any edit button or anything else obvious.  If I click on Properties of a file, I get three tabs:
General, Security, Summary.  On the Security tab I see from top to bottom

a box labeled "Group or user names:",
underneath two buttons "Add..." "Remove"
then a box labeled "Permissions for <as selected in 'Group or user names' box>  Allow Deny" with list of permissions
and an Advanced button.
At the very bottom OK/Cancel/Apply

If I then select "Advanced" I get a window with three tabs:
Permissions, Owner, Effective Permissons

The contents of the Owner tab is what I see in column #3 of ls -l
I can't find anything that corresponds to column #4 of ls -l

The Permission tab has buttons Add..., Edit..., Remove but those only open more or less complex windows to set permissions.

What am I missing?  I appreciate your answers and sorry for this not entirely Cygwin related question.

>
>P.S.
>I would also appreciate, if you teach your mail agent to insert proper
>threading headers into list replies.

See above.


Michael

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Re: chgrp in Windows

Andrey Repin
Greetings, [hidden email]!

>>>>>> The result of chown I can see in Windows Explorer as the Owner but where is the group information?
>>>>>
>>>>> Itâs over on the Security tab of the same window youâre looking at: âGroup or user namesâ.
>>>>
>>>>I just remembered that that tab isnât always visible.  If youâre running a âhomeâ version of Windows, thereâs a pretty good chance you donât even see this tab.
>>
>>> Thanks for that.  I first thought that's it.  I am on XP Pro so this
>>> doesn't seem to apply.  I do see the security tab
>>> if that is what you mean.   But the 'Group or user names' box only selects
>>> for which user/group I want to modify
>>> the permissions, doesn't it?  I don't want to modify or look at permissions.
>>
>>> I am actually looking for the information I see in ls -l as the group, i.e. column #4.
>>
>>> I am trying to fix a completely hosed file system and seem to have quite a
>>> bit of trouble with that...  Something's still missing.
>>
>>If you mean Cygwin system, reinstall would be a faster way.

> Unfortunately, it's the whole PC, which is also the reason why I have to use this terrible webmailer, sorry.

Then there's an article on Microsoft KB explaining the way to re-initialize
the default permissions on system folders.

However, this is an off-topic here.


--
WBR,
Andrey Repin ([hidden email]) 25.02.2015, <04:21>

Sorry for my terrible english...
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Re: chgrp in Windows

Warren Young-2
In reply to this post by Michael Lemke
> On Feb 24, 2015, at 6:20 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>
> On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 01:50:47 +0100  Andrey Repin wrote:
>>
> And I don't see any edit button or anything else obvious.   top to bottom
>
> a box labeled "Group or user names:",
> underneath two buttons "Add..." “Remove"

It’s Add/Remove on your system.

(I’m referring to a Windows 10 test VM while answering, so such differences are expected.)

You’re really getting out beyond Cygwin’s scope here, though.  You might be better off taking this up on a general Windows help forum.  You’re only on topic here when talking about chgrp as an alternative to this Windows Explorer facility.
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AW: chgrp in Windows

Michael Lemke
In reply to this post by Andrey Repin
On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 02:35:50 +0100 Andrey Repin wrote:

>>>>>>> The result of chown I can see in Windows Explorer as the Owner but where is the group information?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Itâs over on the Security tab of the same window youâre looking at: âGroup or user namesâ.
>>>>>
>>>>>I just remembered that that tab isnât always visible.  If youâre running a âhomeâ version of Windows, thereâs a pretty good chance you donât even see this tab.
>>>
>>>> Thanks for that.  I first thought that's it.  I am on XP Pro so this
>>>> doesn't seem to apply.  I do see the security tab
>>>> if that is what you mean.   But the 'Group or user names' box only selects
>>>> for which user/group I want to modify
>>>> the permissions, doesn't it?  I don't want to modify or look at permissions.
>>>
>>>> I am actually looking for the information I see in ls -l as the group, i.e. column #4.
>>>
>>>> I am trying to fix a completely hosed file system and seem to have quite a
>>>> bit of trouble with that...  Something's still missing.
>>>
>>>If you mean Cygwin system, reinstall would be a faster way.
>
>> Unfortunately, it's the whole PC, which is also the reason why I have to use this terrible webmailer, sorry.
>
>Then there's an article on Microsoft KB explaining the way to re-initialize
>the default permissions on system folders.
>
>However, this is an off-topic here.
>

Absolutely. So let's stick to this question:

How to do the equivalent of chgrp with Windows means?

Thanks,
Michael



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Re: chgrp in Windows

Sam Edge-2
In reply to this post by Warren Young
On 25/02/2015 00:08, Warren Young wrote:

>> On Feb 24, 2015, at 4:57 PM, Warren Young <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> The result of chown I can see in Windows Explorer as the Owner but where is the group information?
>> It’s over on the Security tab of the same window you’re looking at: “Group or user names”.
> I just remembered that that tab isn’t always visible.  If you’re running a “home” version of Windows, there’s a pretty good chance you don’t even see this tab.
>
> If that’s your situation, you can un-hide this tab:
>
>   http://goo.gl/MDoBo1
>   http://goo.gl/C2p2N5
>
> That tab can also be hidden because:
>
> - a group policy setting disabled it
>
> - you’re working on a non-NTFS drive
>
> - you’re working on a shared network drive that doesn’t fully support Windows security
>
> etc.
>
I'm pretty sure Cygwin uses the NTFS "primary group" in which to store
the POSIX group ID.

Unfortunately, the owning group ("primary group" in
NTFS/Active-Directory-speak) for a file or folder isn't displayed at all
in the Explorer GUI, only the owner (user in POSIX-speak). To confuse
matters more, in Windows the owning user can actually be a group.

The primary group was only there to support things like the (moribund)
POSIX subsystem in Windows NT-series OSes and the network SFU (services
for UNIX) and is not used by the 'native' Windows subsystem at all,
although it is propagated through the CIFS network filesystem which is
handy for us.

You'll need to add a bolt-on (like SFU I think) if you want to see a tab
on the Explorer security settings showing the primary group. Or just use
Cygwin ls. :-)

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Sam Edge


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Re: chgrp in Windows

Corinna Vinschen-2
In reply to this post by Michael Lemke
On Feb 25 02:49, [hidden email] wrote:

> On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 02:35:50 +0100 Andrey Repin wrote:
> >>>>>>> The result of chown I can see in Windows Explorer as the Owner but where is the group information?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Itâs over on the Security tab of the same window youâre looking at: âGroup or user namesâ.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>I just remembered that that tab isnât always visible.  If youâre running a âhomeâ version of Windows, thereâs a pretty good chance you donât even see this tab.
> >>>
> >>>> Thanks for that.  I first thought that's it.  I am on XP Pro so this
> >>>> doesn't seem to apply.  I do see the security tab
> >>>> if that is what you mean.   But the 'Group or user names' box only selects
> >>>> for which user/group I want to modify
> >>>> the permissions, doesn't it?  I don't want to modify or look at permissions.
> >>>
> >>>> I am actually looking for the information I see in ls -l as the group, i.e. column #4.
> >>>
> >>>> I am trying to fix a completely hosed file system and seem to have quite a
> >>>> bit of trouble with that...  Something's still missing.
> >>>
> >>>If you mean Cygwin system, reinstall would be a faster way.
> >
> >> Unfortunately, it's the whole PC, which is also the reason why I have to use this terrible webmailer, sorry.
> >
> >Then there's an article on Microsoft KB explaining the way to re-initialize
> >the default permissions on system folders.
> >
> >However, this is an off-topic here.
> >
>
> Absolutely. So let's stick to this question:
>
> How to do the equivalent of chgrp with Windows means?
Not with Windows on-board tools, and it shouldn't even be necessary.
The primary group entry has *no* relevance for native Windows tools,
thus its setting is irrelevant.  What really counts is the owner and
the DACL.


Corinna

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