Wrong setup.exe on http://www.cygwin.com/

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Wrong setup.exe on http://www.cygwin.com/

Jurgen Defurne-3
Dear all,

I was just trying to upgrade my local package repository, but setup complains
that a newer version 2.678 is available. However, when I download it directly
using wget http://www.cygwin.com/setup.exe and execute it, I still get 2.677.

Regards,

Jurgen

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R: Wrong setup.exe on http://www.cygwin.com/

Marco atzeri-3
--- Ven 29/1/10, Jurgen Defurne  ha scritto:

> Dear all,
>
> I was just trying to upgrade my local package repository,
> but setup complains
> that a newer version 2.678 is available. However, when I
> download it directly
> using wget http://www.cygwin.com/setup.exe and
> execute it, I still get 2.677.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jurgen

a proxy between you and cygwin.com is caching the old setup.exe.
Try refresh

Marco






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Re: Wrong setup.exe on http://www.cygwin.com/

Morten Kjærulff-2
Hi,

It seems I have the same problem, I get 2.674. How do I do a refresh?

/Morten


> --- Ven 29/1/10, Jurgen Defurne  ha scritto:
>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> I was just trying to upgrade my local package repository,
>> but setup complains
>> that a newer version 2.678 is available. However, when I
>> download it directly
>> using wget http://www.cygwin.com/setup.exe and
>> execute it, I still get 2.677.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Jurgen
>
> a proxy between you and cygwin.com is caching the old setup.exe.
> Try refresh
>
> Marco
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: Wrong setup.exe on http://www.cygwin.com/

Larry Hall (Cygwin)
On 02/02/2010 06:15 AM, Morten Kjærulff wrote:
> It seems I have the same problem, I get 2.674. How do I do a refresh?

That's between you and your proxy.  We don't intrude on a proxy's private
life. ;-)

You might try using a different avenue to the file, like 'wget' or something.

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_____________________________________________________________________

A: Yes.
 > Q: Are you sure?
 >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation.
 >>> Q: Why is top posting annoying in email?

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Re: Wrong setup.exe on http://www.cygwin.com/

Morten Kjærulff-2
Hi,

I tried downloading http://www.cygwin.com//setup.exe (note 2 //), and
got 2.680. http://www.cygwin.com/setup.exe is still 2.674 for me.

Cheers,
Morten
--
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On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 6:08 PM, Larry Hall (Cygwin)

> On 02/02/2010 06:15 AM, Morten Kjærulff wrote:
>>
>> It seems I have the same problem, I get 2.674. How do I do a refresh?
>
> That's between you and your proxy.  We don't intrude on a proxy's private
> life. ;-)
>
> You might try using a different avenue to the file, like 'wget' or
> something.
>
> --
> Larry Hall                              http://www.rfk.com
> RFK Partners, Inc.                      (508) 893-9779 - RFK Office
> 216 Dalton Rd.                          (508) 893-9889 - FAX
> Holliston, MA 01746
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
>
> A: Yes.
>> Q: Are you sure?
>>> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation.
>>>> Q: Why is top posting annoying in email?
>
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Re: Wrong setup.exe on http://www.cygwin.com/

Dave Korn-6
On 03/02/2010 08:16, Morten Kjærulff wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I tried downloading http://www.cygwin.com//setup.exe (note 2 //), and
> got 2.680. http://www.cygwin.com/setup.exe is still 2.674 for me.

  You found a clever way to trick the caching proxy that's messing things up
for you!

  Another thing that often works is to use a public open-proxy server to
redirect the request for you; it only takes seconds to google a few up.

    cheers,
      DaveK


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Re: Wrong setup.exe on http://www.cygwin.com/

David Balažic
On 3 February 2010 13:46, Dave Korn <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 03/02/2010 08:16, Morten Kjærulff wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I tried downloading http://www.cygwin.com//setup.exe (note 2 //), and
>> got 2.680. http://www.cygwin.com/setup.exe is still 2.674 for me.
>
>  You found a clever way to trick the caching proxy that's messing things up
> for you!
>
>  Another thing that often works is to use a public open-proxy server to
> redirect the request for you; it only takes seconds to google a few up.

Another simple trick that usually works is to append
?some-random-stuff to the url, like:

http://www.cygwin.com/setup.exe&go_away_proxy!

Regards,
David

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Re: Wrong setup.exe on http://www.cygwin.com/

Dave Korn-6
On 07/02/2010 14:38, David Balažic wrote:
> Another simple trick that usually works is to append
> ?some-random-stuff to the url, like:
>
> http://www.cygwin.com/setup.exe&go_away_proxy!

  Forgot that one, but you typo'd: it has to have an actual '?' in there, or
the '&' doesn't get taken as part of a query string:

> Not Found
>
> The requested URL /setup.exe&go_away_proxy was not found on this server.

  These both work:

http://www.cygwin.com/setup.exe?&go_away_proxy!
http://www.cygwin.com/setup.exe?go_away_proxy!

    cheers,
      DaveK


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Re: Wrong setup.exe on http://www.cygwin.com/

Steven Monai-5
On 2010/02/07 8:18 AM, Dave Korn wrote:
>   These both work:
>
> http://www.cygwin.com/setup.exe?&go_away_proxy!
> http://www.cygwin.com/setup.exe?go_away_proxy!


Nice. But of course, you would only try this if you suspect you're
getting a stale 'setup.exe' from a web cache. On the server side (at
cygwin.com), Apache's 'mod_expires' module could be used to send a
strong hint to HTTP caches to NOT cache 'setup.exe' in the first place.

After ensuring that 'mod_expires' is loaded, the addition to
'httpd.conf' could be as simple as:

<Files "setup.exe">
    ExpiresActive On
    ExpiresDefault "now"
</Files>


-SM
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Re: Wrong setup.exe on http://www.cygwin.com/

G.W. Haywood
In reply to this post by Morten Kjærulff-2
Hi there,

On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 Dave Korn wrote:

>   These both work:
>
> http://www.cygwin.com/setup.exe?&go_away_proxy!
> http://www.cygwin.com/setup.exe?go_away_proxy!

This could work too:

http://www.cygwin.com/setup-1.7.1-1.exe

:)

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73,
Ged.

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Re: Wrong setup.exe on http://www.cygwin.com/

Christopher Faylor-8
On Mon, Feb 08, 2010 at 09:21:30AM +0000, G.W. Haywood wrote:

>On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 Dave Korn wrote:
>
>>   These both work:
>>
>> http://www.cygwin.com/setup.exe?&go_away_proxy!
>> http://www.cygwin.com/setup.exe?go_away_proxy!
>
>This could work too:
>
>http://www.cygwin.com/setup-1.7.1-1.exe

No.  It couldn't.  The first time setup-1.7.1-1 was updated you'd see
this same critical problem.  The situation here is that I have been
updating setup.exe to fix bugs and people are amazed and confounded by
the behavior of their proxy caches which don't retrieve the new version.
Changing the name doesn't help that in any way.

cgf

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Re: Wrong setup.exe on http://www.cygwin.com/

G.W. Haywood
In reply to this post by Morten Kjærulff-2
Hello yet again,

On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 Christopher Faylor wrote:

> On Mon, Feb 08, 2010 at 09:21:30AM +0000, G.W. Haywood wrote:
> >On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 Dave Korn wrote:
> >
> >>   These both work:
> >>
> >> http://www.cygwin.com/setup.exe?&go_away_proxy!
> >> http://www.cygwin.com/setup.exe?go_away_proxy!
> >
> >This could work too:
> >
> >http://www.cygwin.com/setup-1.7.1-1.exe
>
> No.  It couldn't.  The first time setup-1.7.1-1 was updated you'd see
> this same critical problem.  The situation here is that I have been
> updating setup.exe to fix bugs and people are amazed and confounded by
> the behavior of their proxy caches which don't retrieve the new version.

I know what the situation is, and I've been suggesting a way of
improving it.

> Changing the name doesn't help that in any way.

[Sigh.]

Yes it does, if you change it every time you update it.

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Ged.

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Re: Wrong setup.exe on http://www.cygwin.com/

Christopher Faylor-8
On Tue, Feb 09, 2010 at 11:21:56AM +0000, G.W. Haywood wrote:

>Hello yet again,
>
>On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 Christopher Faylor wrote:
>> On Mon, Feb 08, 2010 at 09:21:30AM +0000, G.W. Haywood wrote:
>> >On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 Dave Korn wrote:
>> >
>> >>   These both work:
>> >>
>> >> http://www.cygwin.com/setup.exe?&go_away_proxy!
>> >> http://www.cygwin.com/setup.exe?go_away_proxy!
>> >
>> >This could work too:
>> >
>> >http://www.cygwin.com/setup-1.7.1-1.exe
>>
>> No.  It couldn't.  The first time setup-1.7.1-1 was updated you'd see
>> this same critical problem.  The situation here is that I have been
>> updating setup.exe to fix bugs and people are amazed and confounded by
>> the behavior of their proxy caches which don't retrieve the new version.
>
>I know what the situation is, and I've been suggesting a way of
>improving it.
>
>> Changing the name doesn't help that in any way.
>
>[Sigh.]
>
>Yes it does, if you change it every time you update it.

Your suggestion was unclear.

So you're saying that we should change the setup available on the
website to 1.7.1-1, 1.7.1-2, etc.  and possibly when a new Cygwin is
released: 1.7.2-1.  Sounds like a lot of extra work to fix a "problem"
affecting a handful of people; especially when the majority of users
apparently have no problem just downloading the latest version.  It
sounds like this major change in behavior would trade a minor amount of
proxy cache confusion for a major amount "What happened to setup.exe?"
confusion.

Perhaps more importantly, with the possible exception of updating the
web site to allow hints that setup.exe shouldn't be cached, I don't
believe that there is a problem here which requires a change.  So there
is not going to be a change in the name of setup.exe.

cgf

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Re: Wrong setup.exe on http://www.cygwin.com/

Warren Young
On 2/9/2010 9:49 AM, Christopher Faylor wrote:
>
> with the possible exception of updating the
> web site to allow hints that setup.exe shouldn't be cached

In the PTC spirit:

     <IfModule mod_expires.c>
         ExpiresActive On

         <FilesMatch "\.exe$">
             ExpiresDefault "now"
         </FilesMatch>
     </IfModule>

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Re: Wrong setup.exe on http://www.cygwin.com/

Christopher Faylor-8
On Tue, Feb 09, 2010 at 10:27:31AM -0700, Warren Young wrote:

>On 2/9/2010 9:49 AM, Christopher Faylor wrote:
>>with the possible exception of updating the web site to allow hints
>>that setup.exe shouldn't be cached
>
>In the PTC spirit:
>
>     <IfModule mod_expires.c>
>         ExpiresActive On
>
>         <FilesMatch "\.exe$">
>             ExpiresDefault "now"
>         </FilesMatch>
>     </IfModule>

Thanks Warren.  I appreciate the PTC.  This was already suggested here:

http://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin/2010-02/msg00149.html

I've implemented that suggestion.  Now, in theory, all of the proxies
out there will not cache setup.exe.  That should reduce cygwin mailing
list traffic at the expense of network traffic on cygwin.com and on the
networks that the proxies serve.  I guess that's a good enough compromise
although I suspect that we'll still hear from misconfigured proxies.

Thanks to Steven for the original suggestion.

cgf

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Re: Wrong setup.exe on http://www.cygwin.com/

Christopher Faylor-8
On Tue, Feb 09, 2010 at 01:03:23PM -0500, Christopher Faylor wrote:

>On Tue, Feb 09, 2010 at 10:27:31AM -0700, Warren Young wrote:
>>On 2/9/2010 9:49 AM, Christopher Faylor wrote:
>>>with the possible exception of updating the web site to allow hints
>>>that setup.exe shouldn't be cached
>>
>>In the PTC spirit:
>>
>>     <IfModule mod_expires.c>
>>         ExpiresActive On
>>
>>         <FilesMatch "\.exe$">
>>             ExpiresDefault "now"
>>         </FilesMatch>
>>     </IfModule>
>
>Thanks Warren.  I appreciate the PTC.  This was already suggested here:
>
>http://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin/2010-02/msg00149.html
>
>I've implemented that suggestion.  Now, in theory, all of the proxies
>out there will not cache setup.exe.  That should reduce cygwin mailing
>list traffic at the expense of network traffic on cygwin.com and on the
>networks that the proxies serve.  I guess that's a good enough compromise
>although I suspect that we'll still hear from misconfigured proxies.
>
>Thanks to Steven for the original suggestion.

Btw, I did check the difference in http headers in the before/after
scenario and now see a new "Expires" field but I have no way of actually
checking this to see if it really does solve a problem.

FYI.
cgf

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Re: Wrong setup.exe on http://www.cygwin.com/

Warren Young
On 2/9/2010 11:05 AM, Christopher Faylor wrote:
>> That should reduce cygwin mailing
>> list traffic at the expense of network traffic on cygwin.com

I doubt it'll make a significant difference.  Browser caches turn over
pretty regularly, so between any two visits, the chance that there is
still a copy of setup.exe and it's still current is pretty low.

Browser caches matter more for resources needed on every visit,
especially those shared between multiple pages on that site.
(cygwin.jpg, for instance.)

I'd bet the ratio of setup.exe downloads to site hits is below 0.5.
Maybe even below 0.1.

You might check that web spiders don't download setup.exe.  If they do,
I'd block them from it with robots.txt.

> Btw, I did check the difference in http headers in the before/after
> scenario and now see a new "Expires" field but I have no way of actually
> checking this to see if it really does solve a problem.

The Net panel in the Firebug extension for Firefox can do this.  And
indeed, it looks like you haven't fully defeated caching yet.

On a cleaned cache, I get an HTTP 200 response code for setup.exe, but
304 (Not Modified) thereafter.  If the cache were defeated, it would be
200 every time.  Assuming you have fully restarted Apache, the next
thing to try is:

        FileETag none

Incidentally, while poking around with this, I ran into a spate of
validation errors on the home page.  One particularly ugly one is a
second <body> tag on line 261 of the home page.

The best way I know of to clean up things like this is with the Html
Validator Firefox extension:

        https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/249

After you install it, the View Source window is augmented to do
validation, with an error list coupled to the source listing, much like
the way code IDEs tie compiler errors to source lines.  Because it's
right there in your browser and runs client-side, you get real-time
feedback about the cleanliness of your code as you work on the page.
Unlike other free validation services, you don't have to publish the
page for all to see before you can validate.

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Re: Wrong setup.exe on http://www.cygwin.com/

Christopher Faylor-8
On Tue, Feb 09, 2010 at 11:59:32AM -0700, Warren Young wrote:
>On 2/9/2010 11:05 AM, Christopher Faylor wrote:
>> Btw, I did check the difference in http headers in the before/after
>> scenario and now see a new "Expires" field but I have no way of actually
>> checking this to see if it really does solve a problem.
>
>The Net panel in the Firebug extension for Firefox can do this.  And
>indeed, it looks like you haven't fully defeated caching yet.

I used both lynx and firefox's "Live HTTP Headers" plugin.  Both reported
something like this:

  Cache-Control: max-age=0
  Expires: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 19:48:16 GMT

I think that's good enough.  Putting more work into this is not something
that I'm signing up for.

>Incidentally, while poking around with this, I ran into a spate of
>validation errors on the home page.  One particularly ugly one is a
>second <body> tag on line 261 of the home page.

Yes, others have mentioned this before.  Please don't take my
appreciation for solutions to this particular problem as an indication
that I also want to hear about website cleanups.  I really don't.

I debated whether I should make the above point because it sounds WJM
but decided that I'd better say something or this thread would morph
into people talking about their favorite web site validation tools.

cgf

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