[ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated: mintty 2.9.4

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[ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated: mintty 2.9.4

Thomas Wolff
I have uploaded mintty 2.9.4 with the following changes:

Terminal features
   * Copy as HTML (#811).
   * Mitigate stalling on very long paste buffer lines (#810).
   * New CSI DECLL (VT100, xterm) to switch keyboard LEDs (and their
associated modifier function).
   * New CSI > 0/2 p to switch option HideMouse (xterm pointerMode).

Appearance
   * Option Background== for floating window effect (using desktop
wallpaper as background) (#18, ~#666, ~~#501).

Window handling
   * Fixed suspend-output-while-selecting buffer, size is configurable
(#816, ~#799).
   * Consider glyph width for font width determination (#808).
   * Do not start process to construct process list for exit
confirmation (~#448).
   * Enhanced taskbar icon grouping behaviour (#784, mintty/wsltty#96,
?#495, ?#420, ??#801).
   * Setting MINTTY_SHORTCUT when started from a desktop shortcut.
   * Maintain proper terminal size after DPI change in DPI awareness
mode V2 (#774).

Configuration
   * AppID supports placeholders for flexible customization of taskbar
icon grouping behaviour (#784, mintty/wsltty#96, ?#495, ?#420, ??#801).
   * Option SuspendWhileSelecting to set the max size of the
suspend-output-while-selecting buffer (#816, ~#799).

The homepage is at http://mintty.github.io/
It also links to the issue tracker.

------
Thomas

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Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated: mintty 2.9.4

Achim Gratz
Thomas Wolff writes:
> Terminal features
>   * Copy as HTML (#811).

As long as this is not opt-in this is a most unwelcome change that
breaks my workflow.  I don't even know where it might have some use, but
again, if it was optional (like the "copy as richt text" thing) or had
its own shortcut keys it would do no harm at least.


Regards,
Achim.
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Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated: mintty 2.9.4

Andrey Repin
In reply to this post by Thomas Wolff
Greetings, Thomas Wolff!

> I have uploaded mintty 2.9.4 with the following changes:

> Terminal features
>    * Copy as HTML (#811).

I should agree with Achim. This feature is utterly broken.
Copied fragments are inserted as HTML TABLES(of all the things!) with no
formatting whatsoever.


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Andrey Repin
Tuesday, November 13, 2018 0:47:22

Sorry for my terrible english...
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Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated: mintty 2.9.4

KARL BOTTS

>> I have uploaded mintty 2.9.4 with the following changes:

>> Terminal features
>>    * Copy as HTML (#811).

> I should agree with Achim. This feature is utterly broken.
> Copied fragments are inserted as HTML TABLES(of all the things!) with no
> formatting whatsoever.

Good grief, me too!  Please, plain text by default, anything else explicit opt
in, if at all!

Mintty is an ANSI terminal emulator: it needs to do that well, and that is
all.  When I want VSCode, I will use that.

---
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Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated: mintty 2.9.4

Thomas Wolff
In reply to this post by Andrey Repin
Am 12.11.2018 um 22:50 schrieb Andrey Repin:
> Greetings, Thomas Wolff!
>
>> I have uploaded mintty 2.9.4 with the following changes:
>> Terminal features
>>     * Copy as HTML (#811).
> I should agree with Achim. This feature is utterly broken.
> Copied fragments are inserted as HTML TABLES(of all the things!) with no formatting whatsoever.
OK, it shall be made configurable. But please describe in which ways
workflows are broken and how / in which application HTML tables (HTML
source?) would appear.
Of course plain text clipboard format is still supplied (multiple
formats can be copied to the Windows clipboard at the same time,
otherwise I wouldn't have enabled this by default), and the assumption
was that an application pasting plain text from the Windows clipboard
would still retrieve that.

Thomas

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Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated: mintty 2.9.4

Andrey Repin
Greetings, Thomas Wolff!

>>> I have uploaded mintty 2.9.4 with the following changes:
>>> Terminal features
>>>     * Copy as HTML (#811).
>> I should agree with Achim. This feature is utterly broken.
>> Copied fragments are inserted as HTML TABLES(of all the things!) with no formatting whatsoever.
> OK, it shall be made configurable. But please describe in which ways
> workflows are broken and how / in which application HTML tables (HTML
> source?) would appear.

When I copy a text string, I fully expect it to remain a string. Formatted,
colored, but still string.

> Of course plain text clipboard format is still supplied (multiple
> formats can be copied to the Windows clipboard at the same time,
> otherwise I wouldn't have enabled this by default), and the assumption
> was that an application pasting plain text from the Windows clipboard
> would still retrieve that.

Plain text is pasted as text, that's not an issue.
But pasting into a text processor is broken.
When I copy a text from PuTTY, it is pasted as colored/formatted, but text.
When I copy same text from MinTTY, it is pasted as uncolored/unformatted table
with a single cell.


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With best regards,
Andrey Repin
Tuesday, November 13, 2018 17:52:11

Sorry for my terrible english...
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RE: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated: mintty 2.9.4

Andy Hall-6
In reply to this post by Thomas Wolff
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Thomas Wolff
> Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2018 12:08 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated: mintty 2.9.4
>
> Am 12.11.2018 um 22:50 schrieb Andrey Repin:
> > Greetings, Thomas Wolff!
> >
> >> I have uploaded mintty 2.9.4 with the following changes:
> >> Terminal features
> >>     * Copy as HTML (#811).
> > I should agree with Achim. This feature is utterly broken.
> > Copied fragments are inserted as HTML TABLES(of all the things!) with no formatting whatsoever.
> OK, it shall be made configurable. But please describe in which ways
> workflows are broken and how / in which application HTML tables (HTML
> source?) would appear.
> Of course plain text clipboard format is still supplied (multiple
> formats can be copied to the Windows clipboard at the same time,
> otherwise I wouldn't have enabled this by default), and the assumption
> was that an application pasting plain text from the Windows clipboard
> would still retrieve that.
>
For what it's worth,  I tried some simple examples.

Copy and paste into notepad, notepad++ or another mintty window resulted in plain text being copied.  

Paste into MS Word 2016 gives you three options:  "Keep Source Formatting",  "Merge Formatting"  and "Keep Text Only".   If I selected "Keep Source Formatting", the result is a single cell table containing the text copied.  The other options resulted in plain text being copied.  The former is actually useful if you happen to be writing documentation about how to do something at the command line level, but there are flaws.   In my case, the inserted table had a black background and white test and it was not easy to change this.  


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Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated: mintty 2.9.4

Achim Gratz
In reply to this post by Thomas Wolff
Thomas Wolff writes:
> OK, it shall be made configurable. But please describe in which ways
> workflows are broken and how / in which application HTML tables (HTML
> source?) would appear.

I commonly paste things from MinTTY into our Wiki editor (in the
browser), which choses the advertised HTML as the "obviously better" and
then screws up royally since for whatever unfathomable reason it gets
the text wrapped in an HTML table.  I'd have to switch to source view to
erase the markup I didn't even want in the first place.  So at the
moment I paste into Emacs (which uses the text selection), re-select it
there and then paste it back into the Wiki as text.

Whatever you'd think of "rich text conveyed as HTML", a HTML table is
certainly not the right thing to use in any case.  HTML actually is an
anathema for visual formatting if the goal was to have the pasted stuff
look like it did in the terminal window.

> Of course plain text clipboard format is still supplied (multiple
> formats can be copied to the Windows clipboard at the same time,
> otherwise I wouldn't have enabled this by default), and the assumption
> was that an application pasting plain text from the Windows clipboard
> would still retrieve that.

There are many applications that simply don't give you the option to
chose from such multi-typed selections (which makes it even more
important that the application capable of producing them can be
configured).  In fact, the only ones I know of are MS Office and then
they don't always give you that choice in an unobtrusive or convenient
way and sometimes not at all depending on context.


Regards,
Achim.
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RE: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated: mintty 2.9.4

Lemke, Michael  ST/HZA-ZIC2
On Tuesday, November 13, 2018 7:31 PM Achim Gratz wrote:

>Thomas Wolff writes:
>> OK, it shall be made configurable. But please describe in which ways
>> workflows are broken and how / in which application HTML tables (HTML
>> source?) would appear.
>
>I commonly paste things from MinTTY into our Wiki editor (in the
>browser), which choses the advertised HTML as the "obviously better" and
>then screws up royally since for whatever unfathomable reason it gets
>the text wrapped in an HTML table.  I'd have to switch to source view to
>erase the markup I didn't even want in the first place.  So at the
>moment I paste into Emacs (which uses the text selection), re-select it
>there and then paste it back into the Wiki as text.

My workaround for such junk is

$ getclip | putclip

in some mintty window.



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Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated: mintty 2.9.4

Brian Inglis
In reply to this post by Achim Gratz
On 2018-11-13 11:31, Achim Gratz wrote:

> Thomas Wolff writes:
>> OK, it shall be made configurable. But please describe in which ways
>> workflows are broken and how / in which application HTML tables (HTML
>> source?) would appear.
>
> I commonly paste things from MinTTY into our Wiki editor (in the
> browser), which choses the advertised HTML as the "obviously better" and
> then screws up royally since for whatever unfathomable reason it gets
> the text wrapped in an HTML table.  I'd have to switch to source view to
> erase the markup I didn't even want in the first place.  So at the
> moment I paste into Emacs (which uses the text selection), re-select it
> there and then paste it back into the Wiki as text.
>
> Whatever you'd think of "rich text conveyed as HTML", a HTML table is
> certainly not the right thing to use in any case.  HTML actually is an
> anathema for visual formatting if the goal was to have the pasted stuff
> look like it did in the terminal window.
>
>> Of course plain text clipboard format is still supplied (multiple
>> formats can be copied to the Windows clipboard at the same time,
>> otherwise I wouldn't have enabled this by default), and the assumption
>> was that an application pasting plain text from the Windows clipboard
>> would still retrieve that.
>
> There are many applications that simply don't give you the option to
> chose from such multi-typed selections (which makes it even more
> important that the application capable of producing them can be
> configured).  In fact, the only ones I know of are MS Office and then
> they don't always give you that choice in an unobtrusive or convenient
> way and sometimes not at all depending on context.

If you insist on pasting HTML, please enclose each clip in <pre> preformatted
text tags, with symbolic character entities for &, <, >, and numeric character
entities for non-ASCII UTF-8 characters, output enclosed in <samp> sample output
tags, input enclosed in <kbd> keyboard input tags, <strong> and <style> tags for
font and colour effects.

Using <table> and related tags is unlikely to produce the expected results in
any paste target (e.g. Android, Google, iOS, Libre, MS, Open, OSX Office) app or
browser.

If would be great if you could intercept all screenshot attempts and generate
HTML instead, as most screenshot pastes (or worse, videos) show huge windows
with little useful content in tiny unreadable fonts, and little context to
explain relevant content e.g. on github mintty project issues ;^>

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Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated: mintty 2.9.4

Thomas Wolff
In reply to this post by Andrey Repin
Hi Andrey,

Am 13.11.2018 um 16:32 schrieb Andrey Repin:

> Greetings, Thomas Wolff!
>
>>>> I have uploaded mintty 2.9.4 with the following changes:
>>>> Terminal features
>>>>      * Copy as HTML (#811).
>>> I should agree with Achim. This feature is utterly broken.
>>> Copied fragments are inserted as HTML TABLES(of all the things!) with no formatting whatsoever.
>> OK, it shall be made configurable. But please describe in which ways
>> workflows are broken and how / in which application HTML tables (HTML source?) would appear.
> When I copy a text string, I fully expect it to remain a string. Formatted,
> colored, but still string.
I'd interpret this to mean that the feature is welcome but its details
are not?
If you want coloured text, it needs to remain HTML format (or RTF) as
plain text is not coloured.

>> Of course plain text clipboard format is still supplied (multiple
>> formats can be copied to the Windows clipboard at the same time,
>> otherwise I wouldn't have enabled this by default), and the assumption
>> was that an application pasting plain text from the Windows clipboard
>> would still retrieve that.
> Plain text is pasted as text, that's not an issue.
> But pasting into a text processor is broken.
> When I copy a text from PuTTY, it is pasted as colored/formatted, but text.
Which means putty also copies something formatted, either HTML or RTF,
otherwise it wouldn't be coloured.
> When I copy same text from MinTTY, it is pasted as uncolored/unformatted table
> with a single cell.
Uncoloured? It's the purpose of this feature to copy attributes through
the clipboard and it works in all my tests.
Which application pastes it without colours?
The table is another thing, I acknowledge this can be disturbing. The
purpose was an easy way to include an optional transparent image
background in the clipboard. I'll tweak the HTML output to do without it
by default, or maybe always if I can attach the image to a <div>.

Thomas

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Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated: mintty 2.9.4

Andrey Repin
Greetings, Thomas Wolff!

>>>>> I have uploaded mintty 2.9.4 with the following changes:
>>>>> Terminal features
>>>>>      * Copy as HTML (#811).
>>>> I should agree with Achim. This feature is utterly broken.
>>>> Copied fragments are inserted as HTML TABLES(of all the things!) with no formatting whatsoever.
>>> OK, it shall be made configurable. But please describe in which ways
>>> workflows are broken and how / in which application HTML tables (HTML source?) would appear.
>> When I copy a text string, I fully expect it to remain a string. Formatted,
>> colored, but still string.
> I'd interpret this to mean that the feature is welcome but its details
> are not?
> If you want coloured text, it needs to remain HTML format (or RTF) as
> plain text is not coloured.

Yes.

>>> Of course plain text clipboard format is still supplied (multiple
>>> formats can be copied to the Windows clipboard at the same time,
>>> otherwise I wouldn't have enabled this by default), and the assumption
>>> was that an application pasting plain text from the Windows clipboard
>>> would still retrieve that.
>> Plain text is pasted as text, that's not an issue.
>> But pasting into a text processor is broken.
>> When I copy a text from PuTTY, it is pasted as colored/formatted, but text.
> Which means putty also copies something formatted, either HTML or RTF,
> otherwise it wouldn't be coloured.

PuTTY uses RTF in addition to plain text, if "copy as rich text" is enabled.

>> When I copy same text from MinTTY, it is pasted as uncolored/unformatted table
>> with a single cell.
> Uncoloured? It's the purpose of this feature to copy attributes through
> the clipboard and it works in all my tests.
> Which application pastes it without colours?

OpenOffice for one. I intend to check with MS Office, once I have access to
one.

> The table is another thing, I acknowledge this can be disturbing. The
> purpose was an easy way to include an optional transparent image
> background in the clipboard. I'll tweak the HTML output to do without it
> by default, or maybe always if I can attach the image to a <div>.

I think you're stretching yourself out of intended purpose of the feature.


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Andrey Repin
Wednesday, November 14, 2018 2:00:53

Sorry for my terrible english...
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Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated: mintty 2.9.4

Thomas Wolff

Am 14.11.2018 um 00:03 schrieb Andrey Repin:

> Greetings, Thomas Wolff!
>
>>>>>> I have uploaded mintty 2.9.4 with the following changes:
>>>>>> Terminal features
>>>>>>       * Copy as HTML (#811).
>>>>> I should agree with Achim. This feature is utterly broken.
>>>>> Copied fragments are inserted as HTML TABLES(of all the things!) with no formatting whatsoever.
>>>> OK, it shall be made configurable. But please describe in which ways
>>>> workflows are broken and how / in which application HTML tables (HTML source?) would appear.
>>> When I copy a text string, I fully expect it to remain a string. Formatted,
>>> colored, but still string.
>> I'd interpret this to mean that the feature is welcome but its details
>> are not?
>> If you want coloured text, it needs to remain HTML format (or RTF) as
>> plain text is not coloured.
> Yes.
>
>>>> Of course plain text clipboard format is still supplied (multiple
>>>> formats can be copied to the Windows clipboard at the same time,
>>>> otherwise I wouldn't have enabled this by default), and the assumption
>>>> was that an application pasting plain text from the Windows clipboard
>>>> would still retrieve that.
>>> Plain text is pasted as text, that's not an issue.
>>> But pasting into a text processor is broken.
>>> When I copy a text from PuTTY, it is pasted as colored/formatted, but text.
>> Which means putty also copies something formatted, either HTML or RTF,
>> otherwise it wouldn't be coloured.
> PuTTY uses RTF in addition to plain text, if "copy as rich text" is enabled.
>
>>> When I copy same text from MinTTY, it is pasted as uncolored/unformatted table
>>> with a single cell.
>> Uncoloured? It's the purpose of this feature to copy attributes through
>> the clipboard and it works in all my tests.
>> Which application pastes it without colours?
> OpenOffice for one. I intend to check with MS Office, once I have access to
> one.
>
>> The table is another thing, I acknowledge this can be disturbing. The
>> purpose was an easy way to include an optional transparent image
>> background in the clipboard. I'll tweak the HTML output to do without it
>> by default, or maybe always if I can attach the image to a <div>.
> I think you're stretching yourself out of intended purpose of the feature.
Haha, yes. But once I started implementing the feature it was a
challenge to make the appearance as close to the original as possible
(with a much better result than xterm, actually), and it was fun to even
include the background image (only in the HTML Screen Dump from the
context menu, when nothing is selected). That's how the unwelcome
<table> got in.

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Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated: mintty 2.9.4

Brian Inglis
In reply to this post by Brian Inglis
On 2018-11-13 16:10, Thomas Wolff wrote:

> Am 13.11.2018 um 22:16 schrieb Brian Inglis:
>> On 2018-11-13 11:31, Achim Gratz wrote:
>>> Thomas Wolff writes:
>>> There are many applications that simply don't give you the option to
>>> chose from such multi-typed selections (which makes it even more
>>> important that the application capable of producing them can be
>>> configured).  In fact, the only ones I know of are MS Office and then
>>> they don't always give you that choice in an unobtrusive or convenient
>>> way and sometimes not at all depending on context.
>> If you insist on pasting HTML, please enclose each clip in <pre> preformatted
>> text tags, with symbolic character entities for &, <, >, and numeric character
>> entities for non-ASCII UTF-8 characters, output enclosed in <samp> sample output
>> tags, input enclosed in <kbd> keyboard input tags, <strong> and <style> tags for
>> font and colour effects.
> Bold is represented as class=bd, like in xterm-generated HTML. <pre> is used
> globally, <class> vs. <style> is a matter of taste to some extent, I was
> following xterm here. Why <samp> or <kbd>, I don't see, and what's "input" after
> it's been echoed to a terminal screen?

Classes may not have consistent or any defaults across apps and browsers.
OpenOffice Paste Special C-S-v offers me all four formats (plain text, RTF,
HTML,  HTML no comments) but the content appears to be the same with only pre
and table formats, no attributes in any formatting.
Does mintty being run under X make any difference to e.g. colour attributes?

Mintty knows the difference between typed and echoed input and generated output,
so can appropriately tag content: if it's not echoed input, it's output.

> There is an initial meta charset=UTF-8, so the encoding should be fine, and
> clearly readable rather than cryptic entities.

>> If would be great if you could intercept all screenshot attempts and generate
>> HTML instead, as most screenshot pastes (or worse, videos) show huge windows
>> with little useful content in tiny unreadable fonts, and little context to
>> explain relevant content e.g. on github mintty project issues ;^>
> By intercept screen attempts you mean the Alt+PrtScrn key event? Mintty could
> easily generate HTML additionally in that case, better not instead.

That may be a matter of opinion, but agreed!

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